Hi Emmi, David, Paul, Mike, Liz,

I'm a terror for getting myself into tiffs on the net. I was once kicked off a mothers' group (those post-birth hormones can make people cross...)

It's difficult to read the tone of an email without the normal facial cues--wasn't there a study that showed that people were only able to tell whether a comment was sarcastic 50% of the time.

Secondly, it's too easy to just dash off a comment without thought for how it might be taken.

Thirdly, there's the "internet disinhibition effect", where people become far more efflusive (either positively or negatively) than they would be in real life.

I think some feelings have been hurt here. Paul was probably a bit sensitive to start with, but then the comments escalated and everyone is a bit to blame.

As a veteran of something like 10 years of nasty internet scraps, I think it's probably worth everyone being very careful both before they post, and when they read what someone else has said. Try not to take it personally - even if it was meant nastily it's not worth you feeling upset about it. Chances are that it was just badly expressed, and even if the person was extremely rude, they probably didn't really mean it that way.

I'm not being sarcastic at all here, just so that you know, and excuse me being a know-it-all :).

(Now, I duck before the rotten eggs fly from all sides...)

Hello, David55. I am sorry to see that you have taken sides like Miles did for me, it seems. All this does is winds people up even more on a disagreement we probably all wish to forget & does not include you. If anyone suffered abuse on here it was me - everyone I have shown this row have felt that two people have instigated it with their almost pack attack attitudes. However, I am very open minded about it all & accept that I may have been to blame initially, although not fully justifying others reactions. Firstly, I feel Miles, whilst I appreciate his points/support, should have stayed out of it really. I also am big enough to admit that I should not have been so negative, then people may not become so defensive, hence some reactions. However, there is something called respect, & perhaps this should work both ways, perhaps people should respect others opinions even if they don't agree with them. I also need to value others feelings more. If someone does have an emotional attachment to their hobby then that is their business not mine. I should respect this. I too have items ( of glass!!) that I will never part with because I like them & maybe I have some sort of emotional attachment to them too.

Often a row can get out of hand & I feel this one has! I hope the whitefriars people treat it as a tiff it is as one thing it does show is that people have a passion for their product - maybe some people like having big brother socialist style forums who intervene all the time & treat you like children - surely its better to get something off of ones chest? Remeber we are human after all - killing the passion takes away the whole point if you just do not care. Please though Miles, no more calling David names - personalising a disagreement sends it up more as EH did to me - its not necesssary & not nice.

I have been a member of this site for a few months & offered a few contributions in the little time I have. I do read it though & have gained valuable knowledge from the likes of DF & ES in identfying pieces. On the whole they are quite accurate & informative - exactly what you require from a site such as this. I would regard this site as one of the better ones & would suggest that anyone reading this one off row to set it aside as it is a great site to use, esp. some of the links on the home page - highly recommended ( although they don't know their Skruffs from their Ingrid Glass - ha ha ha!!). Anyhow I will apologise to Emmi Smith for not respecting her right to an emotional attachment to her glass, I was wrong to judge. In fact I can understand in many respects what she means, & I really should know better. I apologise to the Whitefriars site for allowing myself to be enmbroilled in this conflict. I have looked through this row very carefully (& with unbiased help!!) & feel Iowe no one else an apology. Best wishes, Paul.

I only pop into this message board occasionally. I spend most of my time at the Glass Message Board - to be honest all of my W/F needs can be met there - many of you in this thread are also members. I have to say that I am disturbed at how Elizabeth and Emmi have been treated - why is this allowed on the W/F board - the whole thread would have been cut half way through by the moderators on GMB. My advice to you Elizabeth is get to http://glass-time.com/messages/index.php?sid=d871f97dc28968562097955790d60a0e (if you are not already a member). Oh and boys don't bother getting nasty with me I won't be here to read it - see the rest of you on GMB

Thanks for the advice on what to do with bullies David - i trust it was aimed at me - unreal - i dont really need it, I did exactly that twenty years ago - yes it worked. I dont need to hide behind a keyboard either - thats for your friend to do - trust me I dont need to.  Unfortunately with text & email it is not easy to pick up someones humour/tone & I guess they can take things grossly the wrong way. The sly digs by Emmi & Liz are not welcome & unnecessary. I have always used this site properly on the occasions I have had time to. Cheers for your support Elaine & Miles, but I can handle these know all jokers myself. Anyhow best wishes to you two, I shall leave the singular brain cell snakes who regulary use this site to rest in their pit. 

So boring now!

Is it Whitefriars? No it's not. So go to www.glassmessages.com and ask there. See what they all say.

Quite often those who were bullied become bullies. This nonsense on forums etc, is common place. It is not new and is really sad. Hiding behind a keyboard safe from harm.

As for bullies do what I did at school. Gave them a slap!

Bung your glass on here and find out if it is Whitefriars or not. Nobody gets paid to do it. Someone has to give a yes or no. If you don't like the answer go somewhere else. No need for any abusive comments. It is not clever. 

Are you lot for real? I have printed off your comments Elizabeth for my solicitors attention, i find being called a BULLY very very offensive indeed, having been bullied for ten years at school - HOW DARE YOU? My comments may have been negative in your opinion but we live in a democracy where we can air our opinions freely - clearly you & ES do not respect this point of view. I shall say no more on the matter - any right thinking individual can read your intollerant comments and make their own minds up - I know who the real bullies are!! You & ES get arsey with anyone you don't agree with. I am best rid of you very sad individuals. ALL I DID WAS AIR AN OPINION -REMEMBER THAT !!!! Your combined set to behaviour is well over the top !!

You're welcome Emmi and Josh sends his regards too. I never had to deal with bullying at school in the 50's and 60's but I've learnt a lot from Josh this morning. Anyway off to York to look at the Viking exhibition and I'm going to treat him to something special.

Hi all, showed what was being written here to my 13 year old Grandson this morning and he laughed. He told me about the classes in bullying they had at school and how the only way verbal bullies could feel any sense of self worth was through causing negative responses in others. He pointed out how Paul WAS being negative in his first posting to me and how he obviously felt gratification in the responses he got from me. He then chose to misinterpret my next posting as defensive - wrong bully Paul - I was trying to put forward a constructive reason for coming to the site. But you chose to see it as a reason to gloat and feel good about yourself. So childish bully in mans clothing I take back any apology I made to you, I name you as a bully who has low self esteem and from now on I ignore you. I suggest "Ms Metcalfe" whoever HE may be gets together with Paul (if they haven't already) and they stroke each others ego. For the rest of the people responding to these children (or is it child) the best thing you can do according to experts on bullying is ignore them. His and his phantom friend have lives that are so empty that he needs a response from you, so whenever he and his "friend" write their sad little words ignore them.

Emmi you have my whole hearted respect as do David and most others on this site. However my saying that to you, like the other morning, will probably lead to more vitriol from him or his phantom friend. My Grandson noted that when I paid a compliment to you the other day he became even nastier towards you - the true sign of the envious bully. My response to laugh at him the other morning was wrong - he is a cruel and empty individual who is unable to see beauty in anything but a profit. I just pity him.

Well Pinky - look at your self in the mirror this morning & you will see that is all we, well most of us anyway, are! Good, I hope you enjoyed your reality check, welcome back. I bet you sat up all night thinking of that one...have any ideas or opinions of your own rather than TP? One would doubt it......nice vases eh? Have a nice day.

.......I think it might have been Terry Pratchett who wrote something to the order of: 'human beings, without things or possessions, are simply intelligent apes.'

See you at the Zoo Mr Scoble.

LOL

Touche Paul, but if you'd seen and handled the vases I bought you would not have wanted them.  I inherited some coffin vases that glisten and which have colours that give pleaseure. I enjoy the weight and texture of them to touch which is why I wanted some bark vases. If this is an emotional attachment then I freely confess to it. The ones I bought were light weight, dull and had no "life" for want of a better word. Thats why I started looking for a web site that could give me information.

Honesty and trust are words I beleive in so when I find out I have been deceived that annoys me. Not being taken for a ride is something I also have an emotional attachment to.

Your comments are interesting and thought provoking - even if they don't always reflect my own. Have a good evening.

Liz

hi folks, i am cynical & also a realist, most certainly not disillusioned (UH - bitchy bitchy now now???). i can see why people like to collect whitefriars - probably the same reason i collect scanny glass - however i dont have an 'emotional attachment' to my glass (lol) - i will phone the men in the white coats myself if that happens!! i like to get out a bit...fresh air is good brain food! if you liked these vases in the first instance Elizabeth then would it really matter if they were whitefriars or not? you shouldn't feel stupid for making an error - i have done it many times with antiques etc. its just one great big learning curve like life & cake making. eBay is full of bandits so beware !! Paul the disillusioned one who gets out quite alot thankfully!! 

Thanks Emmi, I appreciate what you have said. I have always bought glass because I like it and enjoy it, except for the dusting!

Thanks Paul, just felt so stupid after I bought the vases, should have started reading first. I suppose I think other people see me as stupid too - especially now when I can see they were not Whitefriars or as you say Davidson Luna vases. Am now concentrating on looking at different vases, looking in my books then coming here and comparing with "is it whitefriars" and "mistaken identities". It took time convincing the seller that a) packaging was inadequate which is why one vase broke and b) that they weren't Whitefriars. He conceded in the end and since then has been very fair and above board with me.